[It's worse than Jason imagined. Physical torture was one thing. But to push someone to the point of becoming another Joker is another. Was that the breaking point for his family? How does anyone recover from that? Jason is quiet for a long time, trying to process]

And Tim shot him in revenge?

[He can almost see how it could've happened. Would Jason have done the same? Or would he have been too far gone even for that?]